Can solar-powered cookies bring social change? Conversations with Vaibhav Dugar

Can solar-powered cookies bring social change? Conversations with Vaibhav Dugar

conversation with Vaibhav Dugar on trying to bring social through Kivu cookies
changemakers: Namrata and Vishisht Reading Can solar-powered cookies bring social change? Conversations with Vaibhav Dugar 35 minutes Next plastic bottles: disrupting your health, one sip at a time!


Each one of us is a consumer – and what we consume defines us. Our choices as consumers decide the fate of this planet and its inhabitants. It also impacts our health and the kind of values we will embed in our children. We must choose wisely.

A brand of cookies that we discovered is trying to be sustainable at various levels. Vaibhav Dugar, co-creator of Kivu, explains to us why he started a brand of vegan cookies that is solar-baked, made in drought-hit areas of Maharashtra, using Indian ingredients. 

In this episode, you can learn about the following:

  • Motivations & joys of starting a sustainable brand
  • Economics of the process
  • What can individuals like us do more to live sustainably?  

For any feedback or follow up questions, reach out to us at

Please listen to us, share your thoughts and don't forget to follow us on spotifyapple or google podcast

#vegan #organic #healthyliving #zero-waste living

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Kinshuk  0:00 

Hello, everyone, how are you guys doing today? Welcome to another episode of green shoots the sustainability podcast. Sustainable Living is dependent on three or four factors in our lives. Number one, where do we live? Number two, What do we consume? Number three, how do we travel? Consumption is a very big part of all our lives, we all are consumers, and hence the word consumption gets a lot of negative publicity because everything eventually boils down to our choices as consumers, most of the products that you see in the marketplace, in more than one ways, not so good for the environment, and not great for you either. One brand that we discovered is trying to impact conscious consumption by attacking many facets of sustainability. Our guest for the day Vaibhav Duggar is the Co- creator of the kingdom of good food. 100 person sustainability is very rare, but their brand of cookies Kivu tries to be sustainable at multiple levels. I'm joined by my partner in crime Atul, who's waiting in the studio, with Vaibhav let's go meet them. Vaibhav has been in the conscious consumption space for years. Samriddhi organics and Murarka organics are some of the brands he has worked with. His latest venture makes him a social entrepreneur. The Kingdom of good food is a bold attempt at setting several facets of sustainability right. His brand of cookies called Kivu is solar baked made in the drought areas and generates employment at the grassroot level, a cyclist, a yogi in the making, we will understand about this a little more when we dive in, and a social entrepreneur, please meet our guest for the day Vaibhav Duggar. Hello, hello. How are you today?


Unknown Speaker  1:54 

Thanks, Kinshuk for the brilliant introduction. I'm very well,


Kinshuk  1:59 

So let's go to the yogi in the making part first, and then we can deep dive into everything else.


vaibhav  2:06 

So if if this division started that around 2015 August, actually, precisely, September is when I was blessed with my first daughter. And prior to that I was playing football like every second day, in the nights nine to 11. I used to play football. And about a month before we were expecting my first time my first one we played football and there was nasty attempt and I had a really severe ligament tear in my right knee in my right leg. I was not for the idea of getting any surgery or getting any stitches or anything of that time. So I thought why not heal it on my own, let the body take its own course. That's where I discovered yoga by I completely trusted on the process of yoga. And it took me around a year and a half to build some strength. But I was cycling before. And I was cycling even before the incident cycling, and I cycle even now. So I resumed that. And I resumed my jog, which I used to do, and my yoga. And while I was doing my cycling, I had this idea of you know, I'm seeing a tremendous change in me, which is a work in progress. So the kind of content or reading the kind of people I was talking to, eventually 2019 is when I took the challenge of running a 10k every day for the next seven days, I am doing yoga and based on that what happened was the place that I live in the society that I live in, we play cricket very often. It's such a small box that we play over the weekend. And I shared this experience with them. This is what I've been going through this what I've done. And I would like to share my yoga teacher, my yoga learnings with you. And around four or five people agreed to being a part of practicing together. And we practice five days a week from 6:45 to 7:45 in the morning, and we've been doing it for the past four or five months. So I'm seeing a huge progression only in terms of thought but also me being able to share my love for what I've what I've been doing. And the change that has brought to me I've been able to share it with other people and they're noticing these changes in their own lives. So I'm not a yoga teacher. But I think that I read somewhere that wherever you are, whenever you feel you're ready. Just go out. You know what, there's always someone who wants to learn that little piece of information. And that's what I did and and hence that Yogi in the making a more of a progress from what I was and what now, but yeah, it's still work, work in progress.


Kinshuk  4:44 

Now understood and a great story. Great story. Atul is the runner and marathoners and the mountain climber in the group.


atul  4:52 

That's lovely. Yeah. And that's very impressive because Yeah, so what do you say about running and cycling and all that they're very meditative in a sense, right? So, but how did this all lead to Kivu? is very interesting, I think because how would it lead to a brand in cookies is what what comes to my mind.


Vaibhav  5:13 

During my engineering, the cofounders husband, Vivek, Vivek and me did an engineering together a brilliant, brilliant job, he went to do his master's from IIT, Mumbai, fortunately, we've been in touch, and he was following what I was doing. So, both of us realize that there is a passion, there is a purpose towards the planet thing more than passion, is a purpose towards the planet. We kept following the impact that we are creating, but we always kept talking about what we could do together. And just around the time 2019 He came up with this product, which he had experimented on for over two, three years, the cookies that is and I feel that I had time on my side, and hence I ventured to starting this initiative. So Vivek, Vivek's wife who is the dentis Doctor Meenal Kabra, and me we put our heads together. And we came up with this idea that, let's let's give it a shot. We're in a country, which is really big. We're a country that now has disposable income, when a country that is the land of opportunities to different kinds of foods to even snacking items. So you're moving from Staples, to non staples, or to speciality foods, like when you move when the country is moving from a regular food organic food. So that means the next progression will be moving to even more conscious foods. So we're moving to like, say, a vegan food we're talking of ahimsa. We're talking of not harming anyone. Milk derivatives is a part of a customs and culture, right. It's very difficult to take it all out. Like even for me, I'm ready to take it out completely. Like I can't just sit here on my balcony one, of course from having Chai, which had half a cup of milk to now having Chai, which is one spoon of milk. That's the progression I've made. But I'm being brutally honest that I am not a vegan per se. I am not vegan. But yes, my ice cream is no longer an ice cream that is move to a Vegan ice cream. I still have, I still love my Chai, but I love Chai which is gardens Pudina and lemongrass Chai. Personally, I feel that it's good to go I'm moving from even more healthier choices into more healthy choices. And since I am also creating a brand which is talking veganism and gluten free and healthier for the planet, I'm also making those changes in my life, which I didn't do. Of course, organic food was always there as a part of our life. But veganism was never a part of my life. It just happened out of an accident. We made these cookies, we didnt add any curd. Is the thing, it tasted so good. Okay, let's do it. Let's give it a shot. We didn't know market research analytics, nothing of that kind. We just went in to the market. Of course we did a lot of consumer trials talking about taste, it should taste good. It tasted good to me, it tasted good to a family and friends they love to but consumers can feedback honor from different palates, right. So we are with a country blessed with different palates, different ethnicity, different food habits. So we did consumer trials in Gurgaon, Bangalore, Mumbai and Pune and we got a lot of feedback and then we again retuned, we changed the recipe to the current recipe. So Kivu is more of, I think it's more of a two people, three people coming together because you've been wanting to do something together and finding a common ground to put a purpose together. That's what Kivu is for us. The business come secondary, of course, they need to make money to survive, but the idea was to come together and create an impact. So the impact was from the saying, let's do it in the solar cooker because everyone is doing it in the oven, What's the fun in it? there was an impact that I could create in rural spaces, working with rural women, training them, showing them a picture of a future that we could create in terms of employment in terms of environment, so it just was a happy amalgamation of all these ideas coming together. Alright,


Kinshuk  9:04 

so when he spoke about how you are working with a rural population and NGOs, so can you just throw some light on what is their point of view on this? Is it exciting for them, this circumspect about it? Also, a little bit of economics as in how much in a good month can one person make and is it really impactful in the overall scheme of things


Vaibhav  9:26 

Circumspect for sure when we pitch the idea to them for they were completely like what  are they doing what are they doing? There is no point working with them. they wont make any money themesleves and neither would we. Unfortunately, they don't have enough places to get good decent money, especially where is drought and agriculture is not your primary space of work. You have to start looking for options. Yeah, they had a sense of amazement to be able to do something with the sun. Okay, they've not seen anything like that. So you keep something in the solar over and keep it in the sun and after 12 minutes, you have cookies or they're all enjoying it right? Of course, we made them try it first, they saw what they made. And it tasted and they were like, wow, that wow, it was the element that this is doable, people can make money out of it was


Kinshuk  10:19 

very exciting for you as well to see the reaction


vaibhav  10:22 

right I went for the first time I mean, we were expecting them not to believe it because we had done a trial program earlier in a village. So we were expecting them not to believe it. But when we actually got down to doing it for our own selves, we were a little more prepared. And we were able to show them that this can be done, we would like that you guys be a part of our program. The idea is that we're not telling them that you are employed with us, you are independent completely, you all that you have to do is take the training, get raw material and bake  how we have trained you to bake. And anyway cooking is easy for them to just learn one more a different food to cook and then show them here from this money can be made where you can take back a decent amount of money, a respectful income, they buy the raw material from us for what is baked, and that meets the quality requirements. We pay them anywhere between 70-125 rupees per kilo. And on a good day on a good month, they can take home anywhere between 12 to 15 grand. Now that's really good. Yeah, yeah. So Sun is out even in winter, they be able to get that kind of income that you were, the shift comes when they go back home and tell their husband, that this is how much I've earned. There's a shift in the way the household is now looking at the woman, because she's getting more income than any other member in the house. This is a complete shift, you're able to provide better food, better access to books, stationery, for the kids, better access to health, not that they didn't have. But now they have more, they're able to save more. When one lady sees that kind of success. And then they all want to be a part of this project. That's three ladies who are supporting the program. And I always say supporting you always mentioned supporting because without them this project is nothing. Without them, this will not work. Without us, this will not work. And yes, they don't feel that they are employed by us. We are not giving them any salary. So they come in at a specific number of hours, they come in by around 930 and hit tapping tap to the right tap to the maximum sunlight that we can get and by 4, they just pack everything and they're off by on five. So if you look at it, they have a good amount of hours for them to have


Kinshuk  12:46 

Understood, understood, it's really interesting, because you know, even there was all the studies done that when the women of the household get the money, then there is a real transformation in children's education and how this will be put to good use,


Vaibhav  12:59 

adding to what you're thinking. And there's no money for important things of life, health education, living a decent life, even in terms of sanitation hygiene. But when the wife starts getting money, she starts looking from empowering herself, or kids or in laws or her parents. And also eventually, of course, taking care of the other aspects of the houses, a lot of things I do is water sanitation, that they think that we can't think of because we are blessed to be in a space that we have all the richness around us, which we can sometimes take for granted that there's also been a shift in our consciousness,


atul  13:34 

and how do you reach across to them? Are there any NGOs? Which which you are associated with? Or are you reach out to women of the village directly? How does that work out?


vaibhav  13:44 

Yeah, initially, we just we actually just went into villages or NGO, per se, we just went in because we actually show a proof of concept to somebody, we are now approaching NGOs. And we're now looking at a different product line again Solar only. But you're looking at tying up with an NGO for that the kind of actions that an NGO can bring to us far more compared to what we can do as an individual. So for the future programs, we are looking at, we already in talks with a few. We're just waiting for the right time, the right opportunity to take it ahead and close.


Kinshuk  14:15 

Understood. Understood. Atul had this question. I'm asking again for clarity. So he spoke about the fact that if solar is very central to your process, I tried ginger, lemon, ginger lemon with my coffee. The taste is very or the you know, there is a nice nostalgic experience that I had when I had it. So where do you think that is coming from? What is your hypothesis around that? Or is there a real reason for why that is happening? Or what is going on here? I just loved it. It was really different from any other cookie that I had tasted


Vaibhav  14:47 

when you were sitting like when you plan any project or any idea when you sit down with a piece of paper and we just wrote down a couple of things that the product should be as sustainable as it can be. Hence Solar cooking, they will love to create impact in rural spaces. Hence the project as it is, they will we hope to be the most sustainable, earth friendly brand as can be. And even the ingredients and food that you're using should be local. Local may not be geo local and it's just around Maharashtra but even something that could be from a different part of the country but more it should be locally should be central to us. So if I'm mixing all of this, and yes, if it's tasty, it also has to be healthy because we want to be proud of what we are eating. And we would love to eat it too in our home. I'm a foodie. And I know when I love the cookie, I know what Vivek and Meenal like okay, because I liked it that's the kind of thought process that we have amongst us. And so there has to be one there has to be a wow factor to whatever we need. Even the ginger lemon that you tried Kinshuk. We actually grate the ginger like when you're making your adrak Chai, we grate the ginger, we do the same thing grating gender into the cookie. And that is why when you eat it you feel the fiber of the ginger. So that is where I think when you try ginger lemon, probably the ginger lemon, the ginger taste comes like in from the adrak Chai or the other ginger things that we have in. Amaranth is again very very amazing food. It's very healthy. In Uttrakhand, Himachal, it is known as Ramdana. So God gifted food. It's it's not an expensive food like it's not how a quinoa is how a chia is. so these are expensive food because of what the health factor that has been marketed about around it. But we have the same kind of food quality in our Indian food system, we have the Jowar, which is again a superfood if you look at it, it is not expensive. I will not call it cheap I don't want to derogate that beautiful food. But it is affordable. Anyone can eat it. Even the ladies who come to bake can have their jowar rori. And people like us also have jowar. So there is no disparity, everyone's eating the same kind of food. Same thing for amaranth. Amaranth leaves that people make saag and vegetables out of. And these are the same amaranth that we used to have, if you remember Kinshuk and Atul. Amaranth laddu, you know, white, very light, but you had one and you like, it was like a protein bar kind of thing. You got quick energy, and completely healthy, right? You didn't feel something is wrong about and that's what we do. We try to incorporate little things from our food habits, and just pack it into making a cookie, that will resonate with people like us, right? Where we are looking at trying something new, but packaged differently. We will Yeah,


Kinshuk  17:40 

that's very interesting. Because, you know, I never knew Amaranth is Ramdana. I thought they are two different things.


vaibhav  17:53 

That's the beauty of the country and then different things known differently in different parts of the country.


atul  17:58 

Yeah, and two days back only we were discussing I had amaranth for lunch. And he's like, what, what are you having?


vaibhav  18:09 

Now again, right? The way that we are moving, we are finding, we'll have fancy names, I will not pick up Rajgira laddu. I'll pick up amarnath ball. So that's what we try to do also. But that's the marketing side. That's how we try to sell it. But what we put into the product is a gem altogether. So even though there's amaranth in it, even though jaggery in it. there's no other negative things not there in it. Like the preservation of stuff. We've also found space to put a moringa grass powder, we found space to put flax seed powder, we can bump it up even more in terms of nutrition and health.


Kinshuk  18:53 

Very interesting. Alright, so now your product or Kivu has a very strong health plank a very strong social impact plan and strong taste plank as well. What do you think your customers are coming to you for? Are they coming for health taste or environment?


vaibhav  19:11 

they coming for taste first? They all know anything tasty, they will not eat it again. Right No matter how healthy it is. We will eat a non tasty healthy food if it is prescribed by a doctorYou will drink saafi only if it has been recommended by Dr. , but you will not go out of your way and say boss I would have Karela juice. Around that we have put the other things in it. So there is health,  societal, environment. So if I look at it 100 out of 100 people 99 maybe are trying the product because of taste, the other one percent will probably be looking at it from environment or health and that is why repeat business. Repeat business will only come if they love the taste. So, in the ginger lemon case, it's so good that you will again want to go back to picking up that.


Kinshuk  20:06 

Yeah. And try one more. Right. I mean, I suppose cinnamon Bay curriculum, right, something like


atul  20:10 

and where we also talked about the new product lines you're talking about right. Then what does Kivu actually stand for?  Is it a, like a solar cooker based brand? Or it's a rural community based brand? Or is it a food based brand?


vaibhav  20:25 

again, when we were making the priority list of things around Kivu Kivo also the name happened accidentally they have no meaning per se,  until people start really asking it. Yeah, what we figured out the ki in kivu is a ki and ka, as in energy, and vu is wooing your inner energy. So it just happened accidentally, and it really resonated with us. Yeah, so this really like to me action happening with us. The product is an accident, the recipe, being vegan, gluten free is an accident. So I also mentioned the other product line, of course, here we are looking at solar. But we also noticed that solar is having a little bit of issue, Sun is kind of creating issues with the area that we are already in. So we're now looking at whether we can still use rural space and create other healthier products, not necessarily solar based, solar will be a one vertical, we could look at other snacking, convenient and healthy foods, mainly snacks that you could look at, that the other verticals that we're working on. And simultaneously also seeing if that same product can be pulled out from a solar oven. And if that solar oven, if you have to change something the solar oven technology, technically, it could do that, to create that product. From being only a solar focused brand, weare now being a health focused brand, and also having solar as one of the main verticals to it.


Kinshuk  21:46 

Okay, how many people have you been able to reach customers? And even at the grassroot you know, how many people's lives have you been able to transform what kind of numbers you have here.


vaibhav  21:56 

So currently, there are three ladies who are supporting us or three families who are supporting their program. That's the impact, I see direct impact. Each cookie approximately 10 grams helps conserve, prevents emission of five grams of carbon dioxide into the air. Okay, so how we get that numbers because we look at a file using a fuel powered oven or electric powered oven. And the kind of carbon dioxide emission that oven would create in what you're saving to the solar oven that you're using. So these are the two metrics that I have. The other metrics in terms of how many consumers we've reached, I don't have those numbers. But yet, we've been able to reach approximately 18 cities in the country, around 125 speciality stores, stock our products, apart from the E commerce that you're already in. So whether it's Amazon, Flipkart and own website, another website,


Kinshuk  22:52 

you have been able to reach 18 cities 125 stores, three people working on the solar ovens, I'm sure they are getting rewarded well as well, in the process.


vaibhav  23:01 

Yes, yes, they are. I mean, everyone's happy We've all seen the progress upfront, because cookies are being baked every day, the number of cookies are being baked is increasing, shipments are being sent out every day. And everyone is seen. Even that kind of, gives us impetus and additional fuel to keep doing what we're doing. So a lot a blessing for us in the entire process. And I think that what we find in these numbers, these are just numbers, there's a lot more that we can do.


Kinshuk  23:29 

Another related question, however, is that, you know, the doubt in people's mind is that if we try to move towards, you know, sustainable living, then GDP as the country gets impacted, and growth stalls, one has to be compromised for the other.


vaibhav  23:43 

Netherlands is doing it, Sweden is doing it. Norway is doing it. They are their GDP are impacted as much as any other part. As you mentioned, I don't have enough knowledge or insight on this. But I feel that if you want to look at GDP in terms of business and not look at GDP in terms of humans, GDP will always be a term achieving a certain target of numbers but at the sacrifice of losing people, losing families, The top 20 cities in the world population is all in India. Should we be proud of it should we be proud of exceeding 9% GDP, because the reason why we moved from Delhi to Pune was only for the reason of air pollution. My daughter was three years old, and for 45 days flat, she didn't get off that bed. We shut all the windows, we put an air purifier, I put all the different kinds of plants that can help. But when air pollution outside is a triple line and even beyond. A meter cannot even know because it can only take three digits. What will all the devices and plants do here and my little one was in bed for 45 days. We took a call and within a week, we were in Pune. She was out in the sun, the next day. We are going through a tremendous crisis. And I think we should start, the media should start talking about it more often than only looking at GDP and numbers and how much we're growing. Eventually, when it starts hitting our own family, like how COVID hit our own family, and then people start rising, and we're just about there. I mean, I'm sorry to sound so negative, but then people who have the power, responsible people up there should take necessary policymaking like how we are doing for EVs, how the government is pushing on EVs, and now bio fuel. I mean, India is a country that is actually taking shots, they are calling shots, and now people are looking at us and saying, but these guys doing it by God, we do it being a developed country, we are still developing and taking those shots and taking those calls, a lot of the energy is now being provided by wind and solar. In fact, they're as cheap, which you know, they as cheap as using it from a turbine or from from a coal power plant,


atul  25:52 

right. And then government policy is a pillar, which actually, I think in, in a sense, makes the most impact. But as individuals also, I think we need to move in a certain direction. If, for example, this is a question which always comes to us that how do I even start living sustainably. So if for example, you had to suggest people that how to start on the journey what one decision they need to take today, to start on this journey? What would that advice be? And other than buying Kivu cookies? What's that advice Be?


vaibhav  26:29 

There? No, it's amazing that we still discuss these questions even now. So we still need to do so much of work. Still, like I remember when we when I started on this journey to the 1009-10 with the drives and then eventually farming, the same questions was put out there. And even now, but what has changed is a lot more people are now finally doing it. Oh, like people are like, I don't have to go out and say hey to me, so of course, people are doing it on their own, a lot of consciousness has come in, people are becoming very self aware. And I believe that they are able to find the love for the planet. Everything I feel like for people like us, individuals, everything starts at home from the floor cleaner that you're using to the toilet cleaner that you're using, the soap that you're using, everything has an impact on the environment. And luckily, we have options. And they're not expensive, like they used to be expensive. at those points of time, right now you can find a bamboo tissue paper, why don't you use that instead of paper, Virgin paper, tissue paper. So we have options, and they are cheap. They're not as expensive as they used to be cheap in terms of quality. But because they are affordable. We can always go back to using a toothpaste which is made out of neem and doesn't have all the fluoride and all those different different kinds of stuff. You always have a little piece of garden in our house, a lot of plants and they can grow indoors, which will of course, change it may eliminate it may not reverse climate change overnight. But it is a step towards it. I mean, being humans, we can do amazing things, right, we have been able to send satellites that are beyond our solar system, and it is still sending us information to be able to create that kind of stuff, I'm sure we can even do these things that we should be doing now. So a lot of these little things, how we can integrate solar into our lives, getting a nice decent solar mobile chargers or solar lanterns like in our house, we have two lamps in each of our rooms in the evenings, we aren't on evenings, we kind of turn off electricity in our house and turn on the solar lamps. Little little things that we try doing also waste, being conscious of the waste and trying to limit packaged food as much as possible. Though, we are also in that same space. That is the biggest limitation that we have that our packaging is still plastic. But yeah, being conscious about that being conscious about the kind of water purifier that you're using, how much water is being wasted. And if you can use that only with that water in either washing or feeding the plant, watering the plant. So there's a lot and I'm sure in your website, you'll be covering all those areas. But these are a few things that I can think of right now. So very interesting.


Kinshuk  29:11 

Yes, best a lot of points. And like you said, a lot of these are easy to do now than they were a few years back so easy and not so expensive on the wallet. That's what people should take away from this. And I think the other point that you made that, you know, the love for nature, and you know, and the things that everything starts from home, I think these are the these are two really very important points  Even waste segregation is again something that we all can start. We don't have to wait for anything. Right. So very interesting pointers for people to


atul  29:45 

Yeah, and that love for planet, I think has to be carried with you. So I've seen what I've seen is people for example, who go on treks, for longer treks, probably 8-10 days straight. I've seen them start carrying Non-plastic water bottles with them, start carrying their own cups


vaibhav  30:03 

Yes, I love the nature. There have been studies in Japan which say that to heal yourself, you should start walking 15-20 minutes each day in a forest, barefoot. We used to do that. Traditionally, we used to do that, be close to nature. In our country, there is so much of richness in terms of wisdom we have derived from nature and I hope we can do a lot more together

Atul 30:36

As you said, it is not a big world right now which is working towards this. It is a small community and through each of us, we support each other and move together. I think that is when we can make a real change.

Kinshuk 30:52

Vaibhav, Thank you so much. We have taken a lot of your time. It was a very engaging discussion and there was so much to learn from your thought process, what you have been doing which is not there outside on media or linkedin. All the best to Kivu trying to do so many things. It is brilliant and we would love it to succeed. I promise you that I will be a repeat customer for sure. Thank you so much

Vaibhav 31:14

Thank you so much Kinshuk and Atul for time, space and putting it all together for people like us. Thanks a lot. Wishing you guys all the luck

Kinshuk 31:27

And to our listeners, thank you so much for supporting us. Thanks for all the ideas you have been giving in terms of what more do you want to listen to. Please check out Vaibhav’s brand of cookies – Kivu. They are available on many marketplaces and do give your feedback to him on how you like the product. I am sure, your feedback will go a long way in improving our podcast and his cookies. Thank you so much. I want to acknowledge the contribution of Nilesh Arora, who is our podcast editor who is a very young and bright chap churning out very nice content in spite of the various recording errors, we are making. Thanks Nilesh

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Author - team awenest 

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